Rule 9.6 bans backhand shot?

NicfromSweden 13
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[Ridgester]

From what a ref told me the other day, the new rule says that when you use the edge of the stick to raise the ball, it's illegal.  Is that true because I just now mastered that move and love it because I don't know anyone else in my league who can do it, .  If raising the ball is illegal like that is it still legal to tackle with it, and just do basic sweep passes with the edge?
Ridge

[bighitter]

The rule is about forehand edges.  It explicitly says that backhand is OK.  On the forehand you can't do sweep passes with the edge.
http://www.worldhockey.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,1181-177698-194916-110316-0-file,00.pdf

[keely]

Ridgester, I don't know what you mean by a "backhand shot", but I'm absolutely positive you'll find your answer in the extensive and thorough threads listed below:

• forehand with edge of stick
• interesting Youtube stuff
• Re: UmpireHockey.com Names FHF it's Official Forum
• front stick spine hits (tomahawks)
• Is it true..
• Chip Shots
• FOREHAND HITTING

I usually say, "Hope that helps" here, but I know it'll help.

[Ridgester]

i still don't really get it.  Is this shot illegal? http://flickr.com/photos/21025183@N07/2314930630

[keely]

Unless you're playing in a region or division in the US that has modified the Rules of Hockey in this regard, the answer to your question is unequivocally no. This "ref" (umpire) is confused because the shot you've pictured uses the reverse edge of the stick, which is perfectly legal.

I just returned from umpiring a team touring the US and had a nice long chat with an NCAA umpire who was also looking for this clarification. It seems there are a few people confused about this rule down there.

[deegum]

If you raise the ball with the "edge" of the stick,  stick face down,  you have used the back of the stick.

it is not geometrically possible to raise the ball legally in such a situation

[alex.]

I don't think anyone is referring to that Deegum, I think the shot in question is what I would call a reverse hit and you perhaps a Tomahawk?

[deegum]

alex, I've never worked out which is which   

So I stand by the face down description.

The illegality applies to whatever edge is used.

And I've not umpired for various reasons for two seasons, so I've made no wrong decisions.

[redumpire]

This rule is complicated!  Unnecessarily so, it might be argued.

Hard forehand edge hits are banned under rule 9.6: "Players must not hit the ball hard on the forehand with the edge of the stick."  What constitutes a "hard" hit is not defined.

Certain forehand edge shots are specifically permitted in the guidance to rule 9.6, but, presumably, only if the umpire deems that the ball was not hit "hard"; i.e. (a) "in a controlled action in a tackle"; (b) "when raising the ball in a controlled way over an opponent’s stick or over a goalkeeper who is lying on the ground" and (c) "when using a long pushing motion along the ground".

The guidance to the rule also explicitly states that backhand edge hitting *is* allowed (whether "hard" or not), but only if it is not dangerous. 

To pick up deegum's point, if the face of the stick is flat on the floor when a backhand shot is played there is a very good chance that the back of the stick will be employed rather than the edge; this is not, however, the same as saying that every backhand shot necessarily must have used the back of the stick...

Here's the full rule:

9.6 Players must not hit the ball hard on the forehand with the edge of the stick.

This does not prohibit use of the edge of the stick on the forehand in a controlled action in a tackle, when raising the ball in a controlled way over an opponent’s stick or over a goalkeeper who is lying on the ground or when using a long pushing motion along the ground.

The use of the edge of the stick on the backhand has developed as a technical skill and is permitted subject to danger.

[justin]

So it's only on the forehand that all hard 'edge-hits' are explicitly banned by the rules...on the backhand it's only those judged to be dangerous which should be penalised.

[Although irrelevant to this discussion, from the position of the hands and stick face in that photo, I'd say it was quite likely that the ball-contact ball was with the back of the stick  Some players have become very adept at backstick hitting, doing it so fast that it is almost impossible to spot.]

[Neo]

If you raise the ball with the "edge" of the stick,  stick face down,  you have used the back of the stick.

it is not geometrically possible to raise the ball legally in such a situation

Actually, the small contact radius of the edge of the stick with the ball is the same whether the stick is face up or face down.  It is not dissimilar to hitting a billiard ball with a cue... the size of the propelling implement is much smaller than the diameter of the ball that is being hit, and as you all know, player billiards/snooker/pool if you get off centre by even a small amount the ball shoots off at an angle compared to a dead centre hit (excluding all trick shots).

Edge hits of a hockey ball by a stick are not that much different - if you get the edge of the stick dead centre on the ball, it should go fairly much in the direction you intended. Off by a couple of mm, and the ball will leave at an angle. No "back of stick" is required.  In fact if you fluff an edge hit (on the forehand) that much that it comes off the back of the stick, it will be lucky to travel any significant distance or velocity, just like a mishit in billiards.

The FIH rules don't discriminate between the two edges of the stick - there is no label like "inside" or "outside" edge, it is just an edge.  The rules are specific about which side of the body the swing is made from. Hard edge hits on the forehand/right side of the body are banned, no matter which edge you use.  Edge hits from the backhand/left side of the body are allowed, and there is no prohibition or statement about which edge you choose to hit with.

The way is see it, you actually don't need to overcomplicate this, as which way the head of the stick is facing is irrelevant as far as the rules are concerned, it's only whether the swing is from the forehand, or backhand, and then whether the umpire considers the edge hit hard (forehand) or dangerous (both). You don't even need to know what a tomahawk is  (or a frumpy) 

[justin]

WHAT (in a hockey context) is a 'frumpy'?
I may not need to know, but I want to!

My guess is that it's a mishit of some sort which doesn't travel far??

[Neo]

WHAT (in a hockey context) is a 'frumpy'?
 

"Use the SEARCH Luke"  (with apologies to Starwars  )

http://www.fieldhockeyforum.com/index.php/topic,219.msg1631.html#msg1631

[keely]

Regardless, despite the fact that Ridgester's description was far from clear, the photo he included makes it very clear what he's talking about:

i still don't really get it.  Is this shot illegal? http://flickr.com/photos/21025183@N07/2314930630

Not a forehand edge hit, not a reverse edge hit with the flat side down, but a normal and legal reverse edge hit (tomohawk, frumpy, late for dinner, whatever you want to call it).

Ridgester, I hope that answers your question.

[justin]

WHAT (in a hockey context) is a 'frumpy'?
 

"Use the SEARCH Luke"  (with apologies to Starwars  )

http://www.fieldhockeyforum.com/index.php/topic,219.msg1631.html#msg1631

I did a search...everywhere, it seems, but here

What a silly name!