2007/8 Rules of Hockey Briefing and Guidance for Umpires now published

NicfromSweden 13
mani 8
bigmick 6
majwalrus 5
JiMMM 5
serbulator 4
silky 4
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Gocu 4
kristof 3

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[deegum]

As far as I can see goal keepers using their LHP are in the same situation, while in the circle, as a player using the front edge of the stick.

": not TOO hard"

[keely]

keeley, I think Animal is refering to;

• GKs are permitted to move the ball away with their hand/hand protector/arm/body to deny possession or another shot at goal - i.e. intercepting a pass across the circle

And that if he is on the ground and plays at the ball what happens if the attacker also takes a swing at the ball and misses?

Same result if the GK is on the ground and stops or deflects the ball with their hand/hand protector/arm/body under the current rules. I don't see how allowing GKs to move the ball away with their hands suddenly means that they're going to be supine more often? I'm being sincere here, I don't get it but I'd like to understand if this is something I'm going to have to be prepared to call more often in order to protect the GK. 

Slightly off subject but does this imply that the GK can run at the ball lower their LH and use it to knock the ball away, while at speed?

As part of a goal-saving action and, as always, subject to danger! Don't see why not.

[Magpie]

keeley under the current rules a GK is very careful to not move their arm/hand when the ball is against them for fear of having a PS awarded against them, plus most umpires will not allow an attacker the play the ball into the GK when they have the ball against their arm/hand, danger.

What Animal may be heading towards is that now a GK can play the ball, there is the potential for a GK and an attacker to play at the ball the same as in a normal tackle, the only dif is the GK is using their glove, the attacker is using their stick. The broken bones Animal is talking about is that what happens if there is a clash, where is the danger then?

The old rules offered protection by the GK having to remain still and allow the umpire to make the decision (I normally blow a PC very quickly to remove danger), now an umpire could rule you could have played the ball but choose not to therefore etc etc etc. the protection the old rule gave is lost plus introduced a potential for injury.

I agree with the new rules, however I does not appear that they have considered the implications fully or gone through the "what if" scenarios or at least how the new rule effects the current?

Have I made sense?

[animal]

Made perfect sense to me 'Pie and I will start manufacturing Carbon fibre arm guards!!!

ANIMAL

[pearcey2]

So Magpie/Animal, how would you like the new rule worded?

[boundy]

It should be "the forward is only allowed to hit the ball at a protected part of the keeper and allow them to make an easy, yet stunning looking save"  :D

But back to being serious, I can not see this being such a problem. I have been diving in head first with my stick and have taken plenty of blows to my RHP with no damage. I am not so sure what would happen with the LHP though as it offers different protection. I am also using mercian guards which have a curve on them so I don't get my fingers crushed between the stick and ball as I used to with the obo RHP I used to use which had no where for the fingers to go. However I don't play at a comparable level to a lot of the keepers on here and their views are probably far more experienced.

[Magpie]

Not looking for a new wording, only assurance that the GK's and for that matter the atackers safety is paramount as for this has the potential to cause injury as there are some coaches who will take advantage of the rules maybe not so in the higher levels but club games might have this sort of play creep in.

[keely]

Thanks for the elaboration Magpie, but I still don't really get it. If it's a 1v1 with field players and one hits the other with their stick, then it's dangerous. Both field players are entitled to move the ball with their stick. What's different if a field player hits the GK with their stick when the GK is playing the ball with their blocker? If the ball hits the GK, well, that's different - that's why they get paid the big bucks and earn scary names like Animal.

I think I'm just devoid of the requisite amount of imagination here. Hopefully I'll be getting the call right come January 1.  :afraid:

[Magpie]

Thanks keely, it is a bit hard to explain I guess. One last attempt;
Essentially the new rule allows for the GK to play the ball (under certain conditions) with their glove, in effect the glove & arm become a defacto stick? The worst thing that can happen it two sticks clash heavily is they snap and you get a new one, but if a stick and arm clash and they could under the new rule it could be more than broken sticks.

Personalk I have had attackers turn their sticks and use the edge to "touch" the GK up when both are going for the ball, and I have seen GK's do similar things as well.

If this does not explain it I will have to do a video using Animal as the GK to demonstrate what could happen  :D

[redumpire]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic (I'm not a GK after all!), but isn't the way to avoid that happening simply for the GK not to use his hand to play the ball when an attacker is swinging his stick towards it?

 

[boundy]

ever met a keeper sensible enough to consider the consequences of their actions? I will guess that on the face of it people will be looking for their arm guards they have been leaving at home.

[keely]

Actually, for all the bravado, the GKs I know are extremely pragmatic in their approach to the game and the strategic decisions they make. Maybe that's being simplistic too, but considering how significant the consequences are to the most subtle decisions they make, I think keepers are extraordinarily detail-oriented. AND crazy.

Maybe for all these doomsday scenarios, we'll find it's not all that bad once we start playing with the new rule. Glass half-full, people! 

[Kilmory]

Perhaps this is a little simplistic (I'm not a GK after all!), but isn't the way to avoid that happening simply for the GK not to use his hand to play the ball when an attacker is swinging his stick towards it?

But as Magpie said, now the rules allow for the keeper to play the ball, the umpire will have less sympathy if they choose not to. Before (now) the player has to avoid the keeper, after the change I am assuming this will be viewed differently as the keeper is no longer required to be passive.

[alex.]

yes, but generally, if a goalkeeper comes out to tackle a forward under the current rules, he will stick out both arms to stand the highest chance of winning the ball, and there is always the danger there that a player's stick will make contact with his arm, sometimes pretty hard. i know in this situtaion attackers don't usually swing as they might in the scenario described under the new rules, but still, i think there is a danger of keepers having their arms chopped at the moment, and i can't see it getting much worse with the new rules.

sorry, i know that's not the most coherent contribution i could have made, but i hope you see what i mean.

[Kilmory]

I think the difference will be that at present I am looking to get behind the ball, not to it. New ruling will mean that I am attempting to get to the ball and play it. Thus leading to more chance of my LHP (or arm) and the forwards stick occupying the same space in time.

Wonder what, if any, difference this will make to umpires perception of obstruction now that the keepers 'playing distance' has just significantly increased? If the forward makes no attempt to get off me after a tackle and I could have got to the ball with my LHP I will be expecting an FHD!