Self pass

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[redumpire]

Great stuff Jon - thanks.  Makes perfect sense.

Now watch the rules-robots come and extend this to another 6 pages, thoroughly confusing everyone...

[ragyrascal]

Useful post Jon, thanks.

Now forgive me here, as I have been reading this post regularly but missed a bit of late, so please smack me down if this is repitition.
But, to my mind, the move the ball 1m rule, in general FH situations, seems to have been blown very infrequently, thankfully, and from what I have seen with little pedantics from umpires at any level.
However, there was rarely a distinct advantage to be gained in only moving the ball 3/4 of a metre inside your own 25.
So, will there be more pressure applied to ensure this metre is travelled and not just the 'token gesture' movement of the ball that happens with the present rule?
Especially considering these attacks may well lead to goals, which might make pedantic defenders more critical of how this distance is judged.
I am not sure it will be too much of an issue, but given the speed of thought Jon has mentioned, I can imagine most umpires won't have the time or inclination to dwell so much on that aspect of the play.

(I say this just because I feel should the rule be implemented at all levels it may become a source of abuse to umpires at the lower levels)

[Snoody]

Hockeyjon and mani - yep, that makes perfect sense, is simply put and very clear. 
I'm with you, but like Red am expecting this thread to go on a while longer...

[keely]

So, will there be more pressure applied to ensure this metre is travelled and not just the 'token gesture' movement of the ball that happens with the present rule?

(I say this just because I feel should the rule be implemented at all levels it may become a source of abuse to umpires at the lower levels)

From what Hockeyjon has said and my own understanding of why 1m is important in this situation - yes.

[Hockeyjon]

Ragyrascal
I think it will be fundimental  the self pass tactic, as that's the only indication/player action that lets umpires know when the self pass has been initiated.
If umpires are firm & consistant with enforcing the 1m players will comply, I guess the finate detail is, if it is a borderline call do we give the defenders or attack the benifit.
My opinion is to give it to the attack, they were initially disadvantaged by the original foul.
No doubt comments will be forthcoming

[Twister]

"sorry, i do not accept your decision to award that PC against me because your arms were not 100% straight, parallel with each other and perpendicular to the floor, and you were actually pointing at the injection mark!"

That's a better argument than some of the ones we hear!

I think this will be another "keep it simple" rule, where as long as the players show that they are happy to play within the spirit of the rules, the umpires will allow them to get on with the game.

HockeyJon has summarised the thought process nicely - there will be a period of re-training and mental re-adjustment, but after that I honestly can't see this rule being a contentiouse issue.

Can we get back to arguing about PC dragflicks now?!

[deegum]

Mani, first you write the rule unambiguously, pedantically if you prefer that word , THEN you apply Umpiring skills  appropriately to remove the pedantry.

For ordinary hockey, you gotta be clear. " ordinary " umpires can come up with enough strange  variations without any  (lack of) help from the rule makers

For instance,The AIHL rule, as published,- I obviously do not know about their practice,- does not permit the hit to be taken till players are 5m.
It does not require the ball to move a metre before the second touch by the taker.
I suspect neither of those are as practised ,  or  as the intent  of the rule makers..
But that is an elite level so a few elite umpires can work out things between themselves

HockeyJon's post represents what I would do in practice at a respectable level of  hockey  using the EHL  rule - as I understand it. ( can anyone provide the wording of the rule?)

I think Ragyrascal and I have similar DNA

[foozbear]

In the first instance it is up to the umpires to ensure that the ball is taken where the original foul occurred, go back and look and listen to the EHL footage. You can clearly hear umpires telling players a variety of the following;

'No the ball needs to be clearly moved a meter for me'
'No the ball wasn't close enough to the foul for me to allow you to do that'
'Guys, I need the ball to be stationary before you get going'

There were certainly teething problems with the rule in the EHL but LEARN from their mistakes.
If the umpires start off with the correct ethos of the law there will be no problems.

So IRN.

from these words , your implying that the umpires have been saying this to the players?

This clears up any confusion I had, which mainly was ....stationary....and people within 5 metres...

I cant wait for the rule to take effect!

hockeyJon.

your words are like reinforcment of the same Ideas I had. Thank you for clearing it up.

[IRN BRU]

Foozbear

I am not implying anything, I am straight out saying that the umpires said these things. Go back to the footage of the Reading games and you can clearly hear them on the microphones.

[foozbear]

IRN...i didnt mean implying in anegative sense.

just that you had heard them physically say it..


its beacuse I cant see that game.

thanks for the claryfication.

[keely]

I've just been offered to umpire a couple of matches in the IHL in March, so I'm going to get some first-hand experience in dealing with the self-pass rule as it's been implemented there (as well as the 2 min. green, 4 quarters and shoot-outs). I'm very much looking forward to it - and if anyone's in the area and wants to say hi, PM me for details!

[Paul Watts]

Good luck Keely, I know you'll let us know how you get on 

[fh4me2000]

Yeah Keely.... let us know which games you do. And yes please share you first hand experience with all...I know you will..

On a side note, we started using this rule  in our scrimmages so people can get use to it, boy o boy, now those individuals that never passes   love this rule. I had this person self passing on 16 Free Hits and trys to dribble down the entire pitch everytime....

[foozbear]

yay...thank you kiwis for posting this.

http://www.hockeynz.co.nz/umpiring/rulesandinterpretations/

NOW im more set to apply these rules in 3 weeks....wooohooo.

[keely]

Of the two games I did in Ireland over the weekend, only the second was in the AIL and thus using the EHL version of the self pass rule. Unfortunately, I don't have a tremendous amount to say about it because I don't think the two teams used it very well at all.

My colleague had the brunt of the attack in the first half so I was able to watch her and how she dealt with various scenarios with the self-pass - how quickly you need to invite the players to move the ball closer to the spot of the foul when closer to the circle, for example; reminding them to take the ball out to the edge of the 5m hash line around the circle, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, by the second half, the fitness of the players seemed to catch up with them and their self-passing was limited to a short touch straight ahead forward and a big hit, which had absolutely no effect at all. It also cut down on the amount of transferring of the ball around the back - which is, near as I can tell, still a generally good hockey tactic to spread out the field. As of a result, the play was very congested up and down one side of the pitch and then the other.

For myself, I was pleased with how quickly I adapted in my own mind and I don't recall an "Oh S**t" moment where I was behind because I didn't anticipate the self-pass. On the other hand, I was on high alert that day and very determined to not let that happen, so I expect when my guard's down I'll have my fair share of those.

I didn't see any defenders getting in the way within the 5m of the self-pass; they were very good at simply continuing to run away without interfering until the ball had gone a good 5m, usually quite a bit more.

Once I had to call a set of attackers for playing the ball off a free hit between each other when they were deep in the attacking 23 and only 2-3m apart from each other (not a self-pass issue but another of the free hit changes) - that was purely a brain fart for them.

And in spite of the poor quality of the game and the general lack of pace, I can officially confirm that I did way more running than I'm accustomed to. Better, faster teams with better and more confident stickwork are going to run us off our feet, folks! A good warning sign for me that I'm going to have to take my training to another level for sure.