Goalkeeper smothering Ball?

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[Drapes13]

Just other decisions he made were awful (you had to be there) he basically slowed the game down a lot and he wasn't in control of the game at all and our umpire had to make a lot of decisions for him.

[Diligent]

Just other decisions he made were awful (you had to be there)... 

What, as awful as awarding PS when you intentionally obstructed an attacker from the ball in your circle?

There are some games, when a team is calling you all sorts of names, and when you do to play advantage, your 'partner' supports by whistling and pointing the wrong way... but of course they saw it perfectly from 60m away. In then end there's only one way out. Blow every little thing before the other umpire can interfere. Bring every free hit back to the 'right' place, and hold it until opponents retreat to your '5 metres'. Basically shut the game down until the 70 minutes are over.

Thankfully I've never had to take it so far, but ask yourself Drapes: When you, and your team, and your umpire, have pushed him into that particular corner, who's out of control, and who's the... what was the word you used?

[mosley59]

If I go down on a ball, and know it's under me

Teeheehee.

[Drapes13]

He didnt award a stroke  he awarded a corner as he thought i was trying to get the ball away which i was attempting to do with my stick however i could not so i gave and up and just put the ball under my arm when i was getting jabbed at by some of their forwards (plus my defenders werent being very helpful). I merely put the question in simple terms as i felt it did not need a full explanation!

Plus:

I agree with some umpires taking control like you have said but he didnt try and control anyone including their own players, I support umpires in most cases but i  prefer when they play a free flowing game as much as they can (which he did not) . I try to do this myself when i have umpired very low level games as I am normally playing I dont get a chance to umpire and therefor looking on here to understand the rules a bit better.

So i do not need you tell me what i should do when you clearly don't understand what he or the game was like!! I also called him a moron because of what he said to me after the game which no one needs to know it was just frustration of having to play with an umpire which wasn't so great! Maybe I am just used to the umpiring level i was used to with having an olympic umpire as my school coach and you can't disagree with him!

[keely]

This whole "moron" discussion really isn't helping anything at all, so why don't we just drop it and focus our efforts on what we can, which is the narrow issue Drapes13 brought up in the first place.

[dodgeyumpires]

Well my friend, no matter how good your umpire coach was or is, everybody makes mistakes. Especially umpires who are umpiring at a lower level grade of hockey where you were playing.

As a goalkeeper i thought it was another short corner and pursistent smothering of the ball lead to a flick but one of the umpires after the game said it could have been given as a flick, what is the correct procedure in this case?

So you got the rule wrong yourself? It doesnt matter if it is persistant or not, it should have been a stroke either way. So the umpire also got the rule wrong.
That makes both of you wrong and yet you feel that it is fine to call someone a moron because he was wrong as well as you? Im not too sure but if he is a moron because he got the rule wrong... what about you?
I know he is an umpire, and he is there to umpire the game according to the rules. But hey... your a player there to play by the rules.

[dodgeyumpires]

ooops... if I knew how to delete the post i would. Sorry people
Feel free to remove it

[Drapes13]

I just wanted to know the ruling so i dont do something wrong I like do things correctly!

Also i wasn't calling him a moron for this decision it was other decisions I smothered the ball as i was getting jabbed at and the ball was still moving even though i may have been blocking the ball i was trying to get it away till i was hit with a stick when a forward was jabbing me!

[Diligent]

I agree with Keely that we will gain nothing from continued moaning and insults.

What an umpire should do is to blow the PC quickly once the ball is under the keeper.

If the attackers start digging before the whistle can blow then blow for FHD.

If the keeper has reached out or deliberately rolled to protect the ball then PS, although the umpire must be certain of the intent. And it can not be PS for persistent smothering so long as each one is accidental,... although it might well be that the umpire detects a pattern, and eventually decides: "Yes, this one was deliberate. PS."

There is a bigger issue. We all see how easy it is, when an umpire is out of their depth, to push them under with questions and comments. But isn't the sport supposed to be hockey, not umpire baiting, and is it really so hard to arrest the downward spiral? What can players, especially captains, and umpiring partners, do to restore an umpire's confidence and hand control of the game back to them?

[justin]

Yes, the umpires you have on the day are just that.....the sensible thing is to try to get the best from them, not the opposite.

[floccinauci]

I have to admit to being soft on this rule myself... I know it's a PS, but I had a situation not so long ago where the ball got caught in the kicker of the goalie - between the pads and the shoe. Afterwards, he told me he'd been trying to signal to me as his kicker had been coming off and he needed a hand tightening it... I didn't notice (my fault), and called the other team's captain. Asked him if he was alright with a bully top of the D and he said it was fine as he'd noticed it coming off (he was up front).
I don't know if that was right by the rules, and I would normally give a PS, but as it was more my mistake for not noticing...

[redumpire]

flocc (you don't moind if i call you flocc, do you!?)

It sounds like you handled that situation well, but for future reference, if the ball gets stuck in a GK's kit the correct decision is a PC not a PS.  (See Keely's earlier post for the rule.)

[sanabas]

If the ball gets stuck in my gear, or stuck under me, or if I've semi-accidentally ended up on top of it, I'll yell out to the ump fairly quickly that the ball is stuck. Seems to work pretty well, I've very rarely had an issue with forwards trying to find the ball a bit too enthusiatically, I've never had an issue with it being called as a stroke or warranting a card for me.

[dunnerump92]

i think that if the gk is intentionally smothering then a stroke should be given, however if the gk cannot genuinely get off the ball then a pc should be given, because the criteria for the stroke is a deliberate offence inside the circle or such that it will stop a sure goal.

If yuo dont think thats right, please feel free to contradict me, however that was what i was toaugh and have interpreted from the rules.

[Bertybob]

don't you know the rule for 3rd XI and below? If the goalie is on the ground, the forward MUST smash the ball under him and then keep hitting .
The Umpire shall award a PC, preferably before the GK expires

I don't think I have EVER got a FHD in that situation.
To be fair, never a PS, either.

I think at lower levels the PC becomes the "safe" call to make.

For the PS you need to be sure the keeper was acting deliberately or has prevented the probable scoring of a goal.

For the FHD again you need to be sure the attacker put it under deliberately.

So the PC becomes the "percentage" decision.................... Just don't let the attacker make too many swipes at the keeper before you give it!! (only joking!!!).