Applying advantage

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions' started by StijnDP, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. StijnDP

    StijnDP FHF Starter

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    Hi all,

    I'm having difficulty with combining section 9 (offences, rules of conduct of players) with rule 12.1 (Advantage : a penalty is awarded only when a player or team has been disadvantaged by an opponent breaking the
    Rules
    ).

    For example, the ball is inside D. An attacker deliberately plays the ball onto the foot of a defender. The attacker is not disadvantaged, the defender does not gain advantage. Still, in 95% of the cases a PC is awarded, even when the attacker is really searching for that foot and does not intend to create a goal scoring opportunity. There were quite a few PCs awarded like this at yesterday's EHL games in Eindhoven.

    To me, there is a huge difference between the guidance to art 9.11 and what happens on the field. Can you please give me some additional guidance?

    Thanks,

    Stijn
     
  2. lsfreaks

    lsfreaks FHF Starter

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    It might be that there is a Att behind the Def and therefore it looks like he's stop the pass if not it should be "play on" as no offence committed.
     
  3. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Starter

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    I'm happy to be corrected but my general interpretation of that situation is that if the defender gains possession of the ball they have unintentionally fouled by gaining advantage, as there is no guidance that I have been given or seen on what the attackers motives are. The defender by gaining that advantage, disadvantages the attacker. In the case where the attacker maintains possession, I'd be looking for them being under pressure they wouldn't have otherwise been under, again an unintentional advantage gained by the defender to the attackers disadvantage.

    Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk
     
  4. MikeyBobs

    MikeyBobs FHF Top Player

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    It's not easy - they used to have the words "manufactured" in the rules - that was taken out four or six years ago (I forget).

    So often you hear attackers say "win something" - which (to me anyhow) translates to "stuff it on a defender's foot and win a PC". Yes, I totally agree a literal reading of 12.1 does suggest that the attacker needs to be disadvantaged in some way, and if he/she decides to deliberately play the ball onto a defender's foot you have to question where is the disadvantage. I suggest if it is done blatantly and your sure the defender gets no advantage, you could play-on ...... BUT that is a "hard sell". If the defender clears the ball, they clearly HAVE an advantage, if there was an attacker standing behind them, they have an advantage. The only situation I can think of: is where there is no attacker, within playing distance and the ball goes off the foot over the back-line. Then a long corner would be the right call.

    As you see, I don't disagree with you, but in (lets say) 90% of situations a foot by a defender in the D probably is a PC, regardless of whether it was a "manufactured" foot or not ...
     
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  5. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

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    Totally agree there is now no such thing as"the manufactured foul". The offender either gets an advantage or he doesn't. The ball that deflects off a foot with no opponent within playing distance = play on . If the ball goes dead the restart is a fh to against the player who last touched it. THAT equates to a long corner or sideline ball. ONLY if he gains benefit from the foot is it a pc.
     
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  6. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    Not in the rule book but there are certainly manufactured fouls in the game. The FIH recognized this by saying that any action of this sort can be dealt with under other rules.
     
  7. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    Stijn

    Most umpires will likely award a pic in the instance you describe in you post.

    Better experience and or umpiring higher level games will assist in this development of applying advantage yet take into consideration rule 12.1

    Most players will accept the pc and for most umpires this is what they will apply.

    On your post it may have been what was considered by the umpires as a team, as you mention, "There were quite a few PCs awarded like this at yesterday's EHL games in Eindhoven"
     

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