Does the D line itself count as the D.

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by GPrice85, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. GPrice85

    GPrice85 FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Hello to all learned ladies gentlemen of the forum.

    Following our game at the weekend, the oppo had a goal disallowed for the shot being outside the D. This would've been 1-0 to them, in a game which we went on to win 3-0, so was rather important.

    A colleague at work actually plays for said oppo, and he said their forward's view was that the ball was touching the outside of the line, meaning it counted as in the D. Our guys unsurprisingly said the ball was just plain outside the D. The umpire didn't award the goal based on it being outside the D.

    This leads me to the following question, which I can see has been raised elsewhere in the forum, but from my review did not lead to a consensus.

    Is there anything in the rule book that defines what counts as "inside the D"?

    I realise that opinon may differ on this, and interpretation may come in to it, however I'm really more interested to see if anyone can pinpoint the part of the rules of the game, that confirms whether the line itself is classed as inside or outside the D.

    Alternatively, it'd also be really interesting if anyone can confirm that this is omitted from the rulebook.

    Many thanks for all help in advance.
     
  2. GK13

    GK13 FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    840
    Likes Received:
    470
    Yes; the circle also includes the markings that define it. So as long as any part of the ball is covering any part of the line, it's counted as within the circle.

    The rule you're after is contained within rule 1.4 of the 'Field and Equipment Specifications' section of the 2017 rules:

    1.4 Circles:
    c. the 3.66 metres line and the arcs are called the circle-lines; the spaces enclosed by these lines, including the lines themselves, are called the circles.


    (emphasis mine)

    The conditions for scoring a goal are set out in Rule 8.1:

    8.1 A goal is scored when the ball is played within the circle by an attacker and does not travel outside the circle before passing completely over the goal-line and under the cross-bar.

    Hope that helps!
     
  3. GPrice85

    GPrice85 FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Many thanks!
     
    GK13 likes this.
  4. Folmer

    Folmer FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    559
    The above is valid for all lines. (As can be found in the 'Field and Equipment Specifications' section).
    In short:
    - Lines are part of what they define. Side and back-lines are part of the field, 23 m lines are part of the 23 m area and the circle lines are part of the circle.
    - The ball is outside an area when it has completely crossed the line that defines it, this is measured in the vertical plane. So reverse logic indicates that a ball is inside the circle if only the smallest part of the ball has crossed the outside of the line.
    In the circle image ball 1 is outside, all others are inside. In the pitch image only ball 4 is outside, all others inside.
     

    Attached Files:

    #4 Folmer, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    GK13 likes this.
  5. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    344
    Location:
    Gloucestershire, Buckinghamshire & Costa del Sol
    You may have found that there is a school of thought ... to which I do not subscribe ... which maintains that if the contact point between ball and pitch is outside the line, it is Out. There are only a few cm difference, either way, but the criterion described above is just a fraction more definitely Out (and is,incidentally, in line with how it's judged in football/soccer, where the difference is more significant).
     
  6. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    632
    While others have addressed the theory of your question, the application is also an extremely important part. The same ball in the same position can seem to be both inside and outside the same line, depending on the position of the observer. This is due to the spherical shape of the ball - the curvature allows you to see turf under the ball even if it would be hidden from above.

    This is not uncommon with the circle in particular, if the ball is on the outer edge. The players outside are viewing at an angle which projects the ball closer to the line, making it more likely to seem inside. The umpire in a sensible and probable position views it from near the baseline at an angle which projects the ball further from the line, making it more likely to seem outside.

    Of course, the player immediately above the ball has the best view, at an angle projecting the ball directly downward and thus most accurately deciding whether it is in or out. However they obviously have a vested interest and it's hard to trust either way - especially when you also have a bias as their teammate or their opponent.

    This effect becomes worse if the ball is lifted even a few centimetres off the ground; the projection becomes that much further for zero actual horizontal change. A ball can be wholly outside the line and yet appear inside it from just a metre away, to the frustration of many defenders caught out by a "play on, still in!" when even the attack agrees it wasn't.

    Your local league isn't the only one to deal with this issue either. NZL - RSA at London 2012 involved an umpire referral for this exact issue. The on-field umpire stated clearly their belief that an initial hit from the edge had come from outside the circle. It had deflected from a defender's leg inside the circle and entered the goal. The on-field umpire awarded it thinking a nearby attacker had played it instead. Not enough information for a decision - so the goal stood - and as the last touch by an attacker, the "hit from outside the circle" was counted as the goalscoring action. From the video perspective at halfway looking directly along the line, it was extremely close, literally the split-second between two frames. From the umpire's position, this would almost certainly appear to be outside the circle. And still in the first half at only 2-0, that was a big decision to have to make.
     
    Folmer likes this.
  7. Folmer

    Folmer FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    559
    What @Nij said x100. Your position is very important for judging if a ball is in or out. Can make the difference between a goal or not.
     

Share This Page