EHL 2017/2018 EHL change points structure

Discussion in 'General Club Tournaments & Competitions' started by Ravennghorde, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

    Mar 23, 2014
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    To save the expense of re-marking, if we did that then the easiest would be to allow shots from the dots and the "D" becomes the keepers area and the only place shorts and flicks could be awarded from. But to counter that, if we don't allow hits to be taken within those dots (until 5m has been cleared) because of safety then there's little chance of it being allowed in open play.

    If a worry is high shots/flicks at goal, could we move towards goals which aren't as high but are a touch wider (same area - different dimensions) thus encouraging strikers to keep the ball down...if safety is the main concern? But I don't think we will ever be allowed to shoot from further away. Although cynically if we are awarding 2 for a field goal, then someone will suggest make that 3 from shots outside the style....
  2. The.Rampage.Rado

    The.Rampage.Rado FHF All Time Great

    Apr 8, 2006
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    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Yes for Round 1, but they will not be present for the KO16 loosers games if understand correctly. I like the decision to introduce second match because some teams go to Netherlands for only one match and then go home. That way they will have one more chance to prove against more manageable opponent. But why not offer them the 'full show' and bring video umpires of they are there (including filming crew, which is the far bigger expense in this affair).

    I doubt they will play 1st match then the winner matches then the loosers thus enabling the filming crew to slash their staff and lower costs.
  3. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Aug 29, 2006
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    I don't think that's right? The press release says:
    That suggests to me that there will be a VU at every game one the KO16 has started. The only change is that teams cannot make a referral during a shoot-out...

    I could be wrong!
  4. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

    May 22, 2012
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    "Most flickers consistent"? The conversion rate at recent tournaments was abysmal!

    Are they going to make a PS the restart for playing the ball deliberately over the back line too? Why would a team who can nail a PC want to try harder for field goals, when they're still gaining better than the opponent?

    I don't see it doing what people think it will do, and I see a bunch of silliness coming out as a side effect when this is used large-scale.
    Ravennghorde likes this.
  5. Inselaffen

    Inselaffen FHF All Time Great

    Mar 23, 2009
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    Back in the big sand pit.
    I think its worth a try. PC's have gained too much influence in settling games.

    People moan about the changes made but many of the changes have made hockey a far better sport (no-offside, self pass)
  6. ArbyJames

    ArbyJames FHF Regular Player

    Mar 18, 2016
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    I'm inclined to agree here. I don't know what the stats are and perhaps someone will prove me wrong but I feel like we've moved on from the days of people like Takema scoring 8/8 every game. Teams are now so much better at defending PCs that it is no longer a certain goal like it used to be. Obviously teams with a good drag flicker have a good chance of winning thanks to their goals, but what's wrong with that? It's a skill. Why are we trying to downgrade the value of a skill?

    Also, in a time when we're trying to attract new people to the game, is it not slightly counter-productive making the scoring more complex? I'm not sure the casual fan is going to bother trying to work all that out.
    Emmo likes this.
  7. scmods

    scmods FHF Regular Player

    May 1, 2017
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    Western Australia
    The changed goal scoring system in the India League this year was terrible. Added nothing to the game at all (other than having to listen 76 times each match to the commentator explaining how the scoring works).

    I like the idea of changing the PC to the way it was done in the 9s tournaments a few years ago. I don't think we can continue as they are, no matter how many points they are worth. It's only a matter of time before a serious injury occurs with a ball being flicked at that speed into a crowded goal.
  8. toonboon

    toonboon FHF Reserve Player

    Jan 26, 2016
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    Anyone saying PCs aren't interesting either defend them wrong or hate set-play tactics in general.

    The prime example is last Euro final. Belgium vs Netherlands, a repeat of the group match.

    In the group match the Belgian defenders stopped every single corner. Mind you, against arguably the best corner team. Sure, if given the time Mink is a god and will beat the goalie 90% of the time. But the game is not a vacuum and runners do influence the PC in such an extensive way.

    The finals however was different, the Dutch had a plan and Mink's double diversion proved successful, they converted their first (direct) corner against the Belgians, locking the momentum of the game in their favour.

    Increasing the size of the D makes no sense, runners would be beyond useless. Correct me if I'm wrong but does the extra .2s you gain from adding 5 meters make that much of a difference for a goalie?

    If anything the D needs to be smaller, giving runners more opportunities to close the distance and block the shot. It makes sense, the time bottleneck in the PC is not the injection, not the shot, but the flick.

    Most importantly, defenders need to be protected during the PC. Perhaps a low ball from up close that smashes into the feet of runners should be a FHD? Disallow playing through the defender like in indoor hockey, it would only increase the strategic aspects (and perhaps force the Dutch to play more variations of their corner).
  9. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

    Feb 6, 2014
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    Basically nobody was blowing it and there were even national/international level umpires saying they couldn't determine intent even when a player would run into the D and rather than pass or shoot, they'd spin away from goal and put it onto the foot and immediately appeal for a PC. Hence FIH removed it and (wrongly) stated the fouls were all covered under existing rules.

    It doesn't need to be that difficult though, simply blow the rules.

    The rules say essentially "no foul unless there is an advantage gained by defender / disadvantage for attacker". A ball that bobbles over a foot that would be play on outfield is a play on in the D; a ball that brushes a foot and goes over the back line is a LC. What we have however is the mentality that foot in the D = PC.

    There was a topic on the umpire forum regarding ball not leaving the D in a PC, scenario was ball hit by attacker, hits defender foot and goes over the line - it can't be a goal as ball hasn't left the D and as there was no intent by defence and no advantage gained, correct decision is LC and yet there was still argument that it should be a PC. It's the international level hockey you see on TV where playing for a PC is a team tactic due to the belief by attack PC is better than playing on or shooting which the umpires then reward by giving a PC.
  10. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Southern England
    As a newby umpire I didn't know I wasn't meant to follow the rules. Caused a lot of aggro between one of our team captains, ex regional, and me because she expected to win PCs from creating fouls.

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