Goalkeeper Rules

Discussion in 'Indoor Umpiring Questions' started by brissy_umpire, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. brissy_umpire

    brissy_umpire FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Have a few questions about rules around goalies after last weekend's matches

    Firstly, are goalies allowed to hit the ball with their stick?

    Also, are they permitted to play the ball outside the circle (with their stick) while lying on the ground inside the circle?

    Thanks in advance :)
     
  2. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,809
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    No & no.

    Our stick is like anyone else's, can't use the round side, can't hit the ball.

    And while we can play the ball while on the ground, that only applies when the ball itself is inside the circle.
     
  3. brissy_umpire

    brissy_umpire FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks!
     
  4. AJF

    AJF FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    No hits are allowed in indoor, but a goalie can push the ball away using their stick same as any player. They can do this while on the ground inside the circle or while on their feet outside the circle but in their own half.

    All else as @sanabas has said.
     
    brissy_umpire likes this.
  5. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    844
    10.3 When the ball is inside the circle they are defending and they have their stick in their hand: a goalkeepers wearing full protective equipment are permitted to use their stick, feet, kickers, legs or leg guards to propel the ball and to use their stick, feet, kickers, legs, leg guards or any other part of their body to stop the ball or deflect it in any direction including over the back-line.

    Does this include up?
    If a shot at goal (raised or not raised) hits the keeper (any part including stick) and it pings up in the air on the rebound, is there a foul afoot?
     
  6. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Yes. Rule 9.9 applies to all players: "Players must not raise the ball off the pitch except for a shot at goal."
    Yes. Generally, the interpretation is that if the ball rebounds at the same or a lower height as it hit the GK then play-on, but if it raised of their pads or stick then it's a PC.
     
  7. hock020

    hock020 FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Maastricht, Netherlands
    Are these interpretations somewhere available for read, so I can give cite them to less experienced umpires or players.

    Asking this because when I began umpiring I did miss some of them as they were neither mentioned in my course nor did I notice another umpire apply them. This led to the situation where I gave a PC and the goalkeeper appealed to me citing the interpretation. As I never heard of it I thought of it as a myth or (the goalkeeper being way older than me) as a rule that was abolished before I started Hockey. Cheers!
     
  8. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    844
    Thanks @redumpire .
    As @hock020 said, is there somewhere that this guidance can be found?
    For those who dip in and out of Indoor Hockey sporadically it is often left to hearsay and other less reliable routes to get such info. I am in a position where I may be taking control of a team and I would like to be able to have a resource to rely on to resolve such quandaries.
     
  9. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    I'm not sure I understand why it needs "guidance"?

    Rule 9.9 applies to all players, including GKs, so if they lift the ball in a way that disadvantages an opponent then they should be penalised. If an attacker legitimately raises a shot to (say) 20cm and the ball rebound off the GK's pads back into play at 50cm then s/he has lifted the ball and should be penalised accordingly.

    I know GKs (think they) are a special breed, but everything in section 9 of the rule book applies to them too, unless it is varied in section 10. There is no variation to 9.9...
     
  10. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    844
    The rules also contradict that when it says that a gk can deflect the ball in any direction.
    Up is a direction.
    That could easily be seen as giving dispensation to a gk to raise the ball during a save.
     
    VeteranKeeper likes this.
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    I’m not sure I agree, but leave it with me...
     
  12. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    844
    Thanks @redumpire. I appreciate you looking into it.

    By way of elaboration to try to help understand why i am asking:

    "10.3 When the ball is inside the circle they are defending and they have their stick in their hand:
    a) goalkeepers wearing full protective equipment are permitted to use their stick, feet, kickers, legs or leg guards to propel the ball and to use their stick, feet, kickers, legs, leg guards or any other part of their body to stop the ball or deflect it in any direction including over the back-line"

    Now a lawyers detailed interrogation will reveal that in the glossary at the beginning, "players" means any participant of a team whereas goalkeepers are a player with extra consideration. So 9.9 as discussing any player can be argued that it has precedence over 10.3.

    However it is also a reasonable argument to say that 10.3 adds new information to 9.9 and as such could be seen to supersede it.

    Either way i think it lends weight to my assertion that guidance and explanation has value.
     
  13. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Having asked a couple of respected colleagues I’m happy to admit that my initial post was a little over-zealous...

    It’s not as straight-forward as I said. A simple “additional lift” off a GK’s stick or pads by way of a deflection is not sufficient to penalise him/her. In such cases play on would be the right call. However, if the additional lift from the keeper creates danger then s/he should be penalised. Similarly if the ball is raised off the floor by a GK and s/he gains an advantage from the lifted ball then s/he should also be penalised.

    Hope that helps?
     
    Paul Watts, SPactionimages and Krebsy like this.
  14. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    England

    This. It is whether the ball is lifted OFF the floor.. if the ball was already up then play on subject to danger etc.
     
    Krebsy likes this.
  15. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    844
    That makes sense, I guess if the ball is already up then the same rules as outdoor apply.
    I have often felt my heart sink when I have made a save with my feet from a grounded ball and watched it arc up over the sideboards. :oops:
     
  16. Iplayhockey

    Iplayhockey FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    2
    Would love to see some umpires in Aus umpire that way.
     
  17. Simon_GK_Mason

    Simon_GK_Mason FHF Legend

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    214
    I don't agree, sorry. If I (in the past stood still) a forward lifted the ball into my chest the rebound stayed at same height or lower but his momentum carried him into the ball I would get penalised for danger. Used to be a real bug-bear of mine as I hadn't lifted the ball. Same thing, PC flick, i dive right save (rarely) with hand and stick, deflecting ball sideways past injector at same height or even worse, having played the ball down into turf and the bounce takes it up again. Penalised on both counts with PC. The interpretation of play-on above is rare. GK is pretty much always considered to have caused the danger.
     
  18. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Mace, see my subsequent post... I made an error!
     
    Simon_GK_Mason likes this.
  19. Nicola Harrison

    Nicola Harrison FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Lincoln (United Kingdom)
    My understanding is a goalkeeper can come out of the D but then is bound by same rules as field players and can only use the stick. However with full kit are not allowed past the 25 yard line.

    To advance up the pitch keeper would be required to dekit to kicking back status.

    The keep if a short is award upon final whistle can then take helmet and hand protectors to join the team at opposition to aid in keeping ball in the D however only able to use stick in same manner as field player.

    Please correct me if I am wrong.
     
  20. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,732
    Likes Received:
    656
    The goalkeeper cannot take part in play outside the 23MA.

    The player with goalkeeping privileges cannot use any equipment not available to a field player, except for the helmet when inside their defending 23MA. In particular they cannot use the hand protectors of a goalkeeper.
     

Share This Page