Passing back to GK

Discussion in 'Goalie Zone' started by Mav, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Mav

    Mav FHF Starter

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    Hi all - tapping up the collective wisdom of the FHF hive mind here with this one...

    Is there anything in the rules that prohibits outfield players passing the ball back to their keeper, him taking a touch to control/dribble with his feet inside his D, and then playing the ball back out again? Is there some sort of "passback" rule (cf. football) that somehow prohibits this? And if this is allowed, can anyone think of video examples/goalkeepers that perhaps favour this?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. murph

    murph FHF All Time Great

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    No issues as far as I am aware!

    Wouldn't advise on dribbling the ball in your own D though.
     
  3. Mav

    Mav FHF Starter

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    Thanks for the reply, murph!

    Since I've got the wheels to backpedal quick enough, I tend to hold quite a high line and at times in games find myself a favourable outlet/pivot to recycle the ball back around at middle/top D. I've come to hockey from football, so this doesn't feel wholly alien to me, but haven't seen many (if any) examples, and haven't been penalised when it's happened in games. I just wanted to be sure what the legality of it was. And absolutely with you not dribbling; was thinking more of having the time to take a slight touch to get the ball on a stronger foot/side to redistribute. (Side-thought: Isn't there a rule about taking a reasonable amount of touches with the glove to bring a ball down safely under? This is the paralell I was thinking of...)

    Anyone else?

    Any keeper/video examples?
     
  4. scmods

    scmods FHF Regular Player

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    I hope not, with the "surprise" passes my team like to give occasionally to check if I'm awake...
     
  5. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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  6. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    The basic answer is no, there are no rules preventing it in the rules of the game.
    However, as an experienced keeper, i am happy to suggest that a passback (in outdoor hockey) needs a lot of thought and instruction from the defender passing the ball.
    As a a keeper has a good view but let's be honest, limited placement ability at short notice, i would want to be told in advance of the pass that the ball was coming and also its intended destination.
    Otherwise s**t may happen.
     
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  7. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    There's no rule against backpassing (there's no law against backpassing in football either) and you don't have to bring the ball down at all, counting touches or otherwise, if you haven't played it dangerously.
    Anybody suggesting otherwise has not read and understood the rules, or is making it up as they go.
    Download the FIH Rules app as soon as possible, read it often, and have a go at the quizzes too.
     
  8. nemo

    nemo FHF All Time Great

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    BUT it's different in hockey as to football you don't have same control over kicking etc and you don't have same power on stick passing .... any defender that passes back to me is expecting the ball booted out park on 99% times and a mouthful of abuse occasionally...... yes there is the arguement that you can scoop and lift the ball high and deep into pitch but I wouldn't recommend it as a go to play !
     
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  9. Nicola Harrison

    Nicola Harrison FHF Regular Player

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    Scooping the ball and volleying it out is difficult. I have only done this a couple of times in training however so far never in a match. I have had the ball passed to me a few times in a match for my players to find space for me to kick it down field. I have no trouble finding space and kicking to half way with pace. I did once over power and put it down to attack through tightest of spaces thought opposition was going to intercept but they missed it thankfully.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. scmods

    scmods FHF Regular Player

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    That's the fun bit about it!
     
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  11. Amey Khanolkar

    Amey Khanolkar FHF Newbie

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    I found a somewhat relevant video to your back-pass question.

    Here is a video of former Argentinean reserve goalkeeper Joaquin Berthold kicking the ball over the heads of the field players to pass the ball to an attacker, who goes on to score a goal, although in this case, I don't think the ball was not passed back to the goalkeeper.


    I was wondering how this is legal, since the rules prohibit goalkeepers from deliberately propelling the ball forcefully with arms or legs over long distances (rule 10.3 c)
     
  12. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    Read it again. ;)

    You can kick it as hard as you want, as far as you want. It's only hands that you can't do that with, so bringing out your best volleyball serve to send the ball to halfway would result in a PC.
     
  13. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    This is one of the bits I can't do word-for-word from memory, so here's the Rules app. When clarifying rule 10.3.c the guidance says
    However, none of that applies to 10.3.a (or 10.3.b) which says goalkeepers with full protective equipment (or players with goalkeeping privileges)
    and then says they're allowed to stop or deflect the ball in any direction with anything.
     
  14. Stephen65

    Stephen65 FHF Legend

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    There's nothing in the rules against it but in practice it seems to be extremely rare because hockey GK's have much less control over a hockey ball wearing kickers than say a soccer GK has over a soccer ball with his feet. It's the same reason hockey GKs almost always let a ball running over the backline go for a 16 yard hit than try to play it themselves.

    Generally I'd much rather a defender under pressure put the ball over the sideline than give it back to me.
     
  15. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Super Star

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    Did this a lot with Reading and Mase in goal - helped us out against high pressing teams.
     
  16. AndyGaut

    AndyGaut FHF All Time Great

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    I'd say it would be fine to do so, as long as the other team aren't pressing high.
    Just be prepared to put it over the sideline if you have no pass on, you wouldn't want to get caught in possession
     
  17. biggoaly

    biggoaly FHF Newbie

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    I can remember last season I was able to play against Andrew Isaac's Horsham Team and he punted the ball a lot because we were playing a 'half-court press - guessing which one that is' & it caught us off guard a few times
    Here's a video of him doing it (Not against us)

    But over the summer I was speaking to Martijn Drijver and he was against it as a skill with his only comment being, "How many internationals do it" and with me saying "None" he went "There you go"
     
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  18. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    I think the reason is lack of accuracy. I can punt it a fair distance, but it is not easy at all to put the ball predictably in a pre determined area such that you can expect to develop a play from it. Generally it either goes over the sideline or dribbling away down to a defender.
     
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  19. Grim_D

    Grim_D FHF Regular Player

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    Isaacs has been using this for ages since his Havant
    days and then Bromley.

    Like Mani says, it helps with a high press when chucking a ball over beats the press and helps with attacking. If you don't have Kwan Browne at your disposal, then if your keeper can act as an aerial option, why not use it to your advantage? Ian Scanlon and Allan Dick could both punt the ball but not given the opportunity (or should I say, coaches didn't see the need?).

    Sorry I don't have hockey examples, but this is why Ederson's long balls helped City overcome Tottenham when they were pressing high and is a reason his style of distribution is actually more helpful.



    Previously was seen as risky because of dangerous balls being called, and goalkeeper needs experience and the technical difference in kicking to be accurate into the chosen space. Punting high balls up and away within the D was seen as unorthodox technique, but now becoming more commonplace.
     
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  20. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    There are two different techniques here. One is taking an almost dead ball and lofting it up field similar to a defender's aerial clearance and one is saving an incoming ball and desperately deflecting it high over the inhabitants of the circle to clear danger.
    The latter is a growing and useful method of using ones pads (usually glove or kicker) to ensure a rebound lands somewhere inoffensive.
    The former is an enjoyable but generally fruitless if spectacular method of shovelling a ball off the end of a hockey park.
     

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