Today's inane Facebook comment about EH

Discussion in 'England Hockey' started by Theory, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    As @Krebsy says, I was making the point - clumsily, I will admit - that an article by a right-wing think tank with the TITLE The Brussels Broadcasting Corporation? isn't likely to be the source of an unbiased view of how biased the BBC is.

    I feel about the BBC the way that Krebsy obviously does: it's far from perfect but I'd miss it if it wasn't there. The fact that both the Labour and Conservative parties complain that it's biased against them shows it must be getting something right.
     
  2. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    Part of the problem is the simplistic tagging the BBC does. Not socialist/snow flake is right wing for example. Politics is multi dimensional.
    The BBC makes no allowance for libertarians for example. The BBC would label me right wing while the Political Quiz, https://www.politicalcompass.org, labels me left wing. Why? I hate and despise big business which makes me a lefty. Except they don’t ask whether trade unions should be banned, which of course they should be which would make me right wing in the BBC universe. I just happen to be anti organisation. Both left and right tend to apply to statist thought. The small/anti state view doesn’t get a look in.

    So yes the BBC is biased. Just not in the way many people claim it is.
     
  3. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    I understand the point being made, but the key point is that picking up on the fact the writers are themselves biased and using that to dismiss the facts of their argument is a fallacy on a par with the strawman. If the BBC wants to have a remit of showing news in a balanced fashion, it gives power and ammunition to groups like UKIP as well as the influential anti-BBC MPs on the right if they set themselves up for accusations of bias e.g. by giving 99% of air time to people who are pro-remain, all but "no flatforming" the people who support leave. The BBC faced a lot of flack for allowing a climate change denier on a recent interview but excluding him gives power to the conspiracy theorists that their guys are being silenced rather than having him on and challenging his (lack of) evidence. Even if the BBC staff are pro-remain, they should still be aiming for close to 50/50 on interviews and then they can defend any complaints
     
  4. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    If writers are "biased" then how reliable are their "facts" anyway? There are people out there who insist that climate change is a natural phenomenon despite the fact that some 95-97% of scientists agree that climate change is caused by human activity (1). Those deniers will use "facts" to support their arguments, even if they're completely unreliable...

    Anyway: I'll say no more. This is a hockey forum.

    (1) https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
     
  5. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    So which bit of the article is specifically wrong? The list of guests, their political balance etc? If you disagree, you need to provide a counter argument, not claiming because they happen to have a bias their facts are wrong.

    Deniers of climate change don't have facts, they simply make things up. Note in the article I originally linked, the BBC did not deny the numbers or the air time.
     
  6. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    OK. This really is my last comment on the matter. It's an 80 page article. I have neither the time nor the inclination to read it all.

    This is from the Exec Summary:
    Two brief points here:

    1. The full data-set on which the article is based goes back to 1999. Until approx. 2015 there were very few politicians willing to articulate a pro-Brexit argument, other than those who were perceived to be UKIPpers or "Bastards", to quote John Major. The political and establishment consensus was staunchly pro-EU. To pretend, as this article does, that a broad range of politicians were being denied an anti-EU voice by the BBC in that period is plainly a biased presentation of the facts. It may very well be the case that the population as a whole was anti-EU at that time, but the idea that the BBC should be running a series of vox pops to reflect that view would result in its whole output being akin to the unlistenable 6-0-6 on 5 Live.

    2. If the data-set goes back to 1999, as quoted, why do they only focus on the period 2005-15 in their analysis? Could it be that the data from 1999-2004 did not fit with their required findings and so was quietly dropped? I don't know, of course, but it seems odd to me to say, as they do, "the case is borne out by detailed analysis of BBC news output dating back to 1999" and then to focus the analysis purely on the period 2005-15.
     
  7. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    So you feel the BBC should be biased and represent the establishment view ignoring the opinion of the majority/large minority of the British population. Got it.
     
  8. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    I'll start with point 2. If you don't want to read the paper, fine, but you're making assumptions that they ignored the data because it was't convenient. In fact the data from 1999-2004 is covered on page 10 onwards. The Today program had a balance of 87/35 in favour of pro EU speakers when covering the May-July Feira EU summit in 2000. BBC "vox pops" around the launch of the Euro had 57 contributions, 28 were positive about the Euro, 15 were mixed/neutral and 14 were negative. The Today program Sept 2002-Sept 2003, 36 pro EU to 19 anti-EU. Coverage of the Copenhagen meeting in this period was 83% pro-EU / pro enlargment, vs 14% anti.

    With point 1, it's not about getting the public in constantly, but rather, allowing a balanced view so people cannot make accusations of bias. The period from 1999 onwards had various major things to cover, from the launch of the Euro to the expansion of EU, the EU constitution etc.

    While you allow chinks in the armour to appear, your enemies have a chance to attack. There are many people, particularly Tory MPs, who would like to take the BBC off the public books and make it private. I prefer a public broadcaster who can challenge the establishment and allow views of both the majority and the minority to be heard while at the same time challenging views of people. There is a large movement, particularly among the current / recent / nearly at university age group for so called "safe spaces" and "no platform" situations where people, far from challenging views they don't agree with don't want to hear them at all creating a generation who cannot cope with the idea of someone disagreeing with them which isn't how the world works.

    Odious people like Nigel Farage and Nick Griffin should be heard so their views can be destroyed not shut away so they can snipe away from the sidelines, feeding the nonsense idea of conspiracy theories. I heard before the referendum of people taking in pens to vote because they genuinely believed any leave votes in pencil would be rubbed off and replaced. People on Radio 2's facebook page for the Jeremy Vine show repeatedly expressed views that the vote would be fixed to prevent the UK leaving the EU if the vote went that way. It empowers these groups to believe that they are being silenced and the BBC is setting itself up to fall by playing into their hands with a bias of this nature, just as Trump and Corbyn have tried to build a narrative of the "mainstream media" being against them to set up their defences for their supporters to use about negative coverage rather than having to deal with it.
     
  9. Willowsacorns

    Willowsacorns FHF Legend

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    From a very brief skim read, hockey is on the red button, the BBC are biased (oh yes they are, oh no they’re not), eurohockey are streaming it, youtube is the choice of the angry old man, Simon wants laps for a green - burpees for a yellow?? The Copperbox is actually not copper or a box AND global warming can be blamed solely on cow farts.

    But seriously (as the great Phil Collins once said - Sue, sue, suedio (sic)) it’s got to be Surbiton’s to lose in the Men’s game. Lee Barron will definitely be man of the match though - the best indoor umpire by a country mile!
     
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  10. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Jaffa Super 6s and Irish indoor finals being streamed live on https://www.eurohockeytv.org/
    (Registration required but it’s free.)

    As for English indoor umpires, Lee Barron is very good indeed, but I reckon Frances Block gives him a run for his money for the title of best indoor umpire in the country...
     
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  11. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    British Indoor umpires are biased against South Western clubs*
    I refuse to pay my umpire subscriptions as a result. I think we should have crowd sourced umpiring decisions by those watching online (enough clicks of dislike in 1-2seconds and the game is stopped). They will be much more aligned with my own personal desires, as such must be more correct.

    *they categorically are not biased against SW clubs. But it suits my political aims to claim that they are, so you cannot tell me I am wrong or I am going to blog about you.
     
  12. Theory

    Theory FHF Legend

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    I couldn't get the red button option to work, so I'm having to rely on the the BBC stream. It's far more reliable via iPlayer than the BBC Sport website, plus it has proper Chromecast support.
     
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  13. Beardymanbristol

    Beardymanbristol FHF Legend

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    If you're still stuck I can do a WhatsApp video call live from the cheap seats....
     
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  14. Willowsacorns

    Willowsacorns FHF Legend

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    Good coverage but looks very empty at the Copper Box. Atmosphere seems a little flat (missing the Smurfs??)

    Does Frances ever umpire the Men’s matches? Genuinely interested.
     
  15. BossFHockey

    BossFHockey FHF All Time Great

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    I couldn't get is via the BBC sport app on my TV but can get it via the youview version off the app, but also couldn't get the red button version working

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
  16. BossFHockey

    BossFHockey FHF All Time Great

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    I am loving that the BBC sports app has watch from start option as I had youth coaching this morning 10-12

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Theory

    Theory FHF Legend

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    The BBC feed was down for about an hour, but it's back up now. Quality is better than what is on the TeamGB Facebook link.
     
  18. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Outdoor: yes, she’s on the prem panel.

    Indoor: she has umpired men’s in the past, but she sticks with women’s now, as: (a) we need her there as we have relatively few women’s umpires; and (b) the season’s too short for to give opportunities to try things out.
     
  19. SPactionimages

    SPactionimages FHF Top Player

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    It definitely wasn't very empty, but neither was it close to being full. The first two rows closest to the pitch weren't sold given the advertising boards would obscure the view, and the upstairs corners weren't sold either. Maybe the crowd were queuing for food & drink? Glad I wasn't.

    The atmosphere was at times a little flat, but other times it was pretty rocking depending on who was playing.....
     
  20. Theory

    Theory FHF Legend

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    I was a bit surprised at how many empty seats I could see on the telly. When I looked at the See Tickets website a week or so before the event, there weren't any tickets available for either side of the pitch.
     

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